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Lie from Pseudo-Hanbali: The Salaf and the Hanabilah didn’t negate Makan

Posted by muhammedm on January 11, 2010

أبدأُ بالحمدِ مُصَلِّياً على مُحمَّدٍ خَيِر نبيْ أُرســـــِلا

This post is regarding the nonsense that one of our pseudo-hanbali salafi has supported which is ‘He’s in a makan’ (we seek refuge in Him from such utterances). The individual has taken upon himself in ‘refuting’ the hundreds of ulema who have negated makan, from the time of the salaf until recent times. The individual has labeled this negation of makan as a belief of Ahlul Kalam, when in realty all of this is negating resemblance to creation, as He Himself has said, “there is nothing like Him”. This ayah provides the basis for many of the negation that the ulema have negated. It should also be kept in mind that the Karramiyya believe the throne to be a place for Him, as Shaykh Abdul Qahir al-Baghadadi stated in his al-Farq bayn al-Firaq. The individual also has repeated time and time again that negation of makan wasn’t done by the Hanabilah nor the salaf, and on top of that he had the audacity to affirm makan for a tabi’, to prove his nonsensical ideas. He said, “step up and see how misguided they are, then shut up and learn that they are using baseless evidences or using themselves and their own scholars as proof against the Hanaabilah”, a couple of things need to be noticed, he has labeled those who negate makan, which is in response to the many quotes of negating it, as misguided, and then he adds that the Hanabilah didn’t negate it. This individual has said the same about them (the Hanabilah) that they don’t negate jism, which was proven to be 100% false. In his journey to vilifying the creedal points of our religion, he has on the way vilified and tried to taint the great ulema which include the Salaf, such as Dhun nun al-Misri and al-Zajjaj, about whom I’ve written a small biographical sketch.

He also said, “I ask Allah Most High on His Throne above the seven heavens for His help in destroying this Jahimi belief of Him being nowhere.” Notice how he argues by saying that it’s a Jahimi belief so that automatically people will desert this statement all together. On top of that he has the audacity to label negation of makan as being a tenet of a misguided sect, keep in mind ulema for centuries have held this statement and implicitly he has labeled our ulema as holding ‘jahimi belief’ (we seek refuge in Him from such slander). On top of that, he has gotten the Jahimi belief wrong; since they say Allah ta’ala is everywhere (Siyar al-‘Alam an-Nubala li Dhahabi). The blunders of this individual have increased immensely, and can only be rectified by coming back to the righteous path as explicated by the Ulema using the sources of our Din.
As a side note, many of the quotes underneath are by scholars who were the authority in their times, and were given titles such as Shaykhul Islam, or Shaykh ul Hanabilah.

1 – “It’s not allowed to describe Him as being in very place or in a place” Al-Mu’tamid fi Usul ad-Din by Qadi Abu Ya’ala.

2 – “’Imaduddin Ahmed bin Ibrahim al-Wasiti al-Hanbali, student of Ibn Taymiyya about whom he said, “’Imaduddin is the Junayd of our time” said, “Allah ‘azza wa jallah was when there was no makan, ‘arsh water… and how He was in pre-eternity… He is now as He was…” Nasihatul Ikhwan li Imam al-Wasiti al-Hanbali

3 – “He’s not restricted or contained in a place, He’s not subjected to time, nothing resembles Him, nothing escapes His knowledge or will, He’s Exalted from Tharfiyya (time and place).” ‘Allama Mari’

4 – “So whoever believes or says that Allâh is, in His essence (bi-dhâtihî), in every place or in a place, is a kâfir. It is obligatory to categorically affirm that He (swt) is separate (bâ’in) from His creation. Allâh (swt) was when there was no place then He created place and He is now as He was before He created place.” [p. 489] the Hanbal Shaykh al-Islâm, the Imâm and Musnid Shams al-Dîn Muhammad ibn Badr al-Dîn ibn Balbân al-Dimashqî al-Sâlihî’s ( 1006- 1083) titled al-Ifâdât fî Rub` al-îbâdât wal-âdâb wal-Ziyâdât.

5 – Ibn Balbân’s words are reiterated verbatim by Sulaymân ibn `Abd Allâh ibn Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhâb in his epistle on `Aqîda titled al-Tawdîh. `an Tawhîd al-Khallâq fî Jawâb Ahl al-`Irâq

6 – “Whoever believes or says, “Allah ta’ala with His essence is in a place, then he’s a kafir. Rather it’ necessary to believe that He… was and there was no makan, then he created makan, and He is as He was before he created makan.” Page 35-36 al-‘Ayn wal Athar fi ‘Aqaid ahl al-Athar li Shaykh Abdul Baqi al-Hanbali.

7 – “Exalted is He that He have as an attribute/description of being contained in places, this is corporeality in essences.” Ibn ‘Aqil Shaykh ul Hanabilah.

8 – “It’s necessary for us to believe that His essence isn’t contained in any makan…” Ibn al-Jawzi al-Hanbali.

9 – Ibn ‘Adil al-Hanbali in various places in his tafsir, entitiled ‘Al-Lubab fi ‘Ulum al-Kitab’

10- Dhun Nun al-Misri negation of Hadd (limit), location and modality as quoted by ‘Hafidh Abi Nu’aym in his Hilya.

11 – The Mufassir’s, Az-Zajjaj, negation of Makan in his Tafsir Asma’ullah al-Husna.

12 – “Because He was whenthere was no Makan, then he created Makan, and He is now as He was before creating Makan”, ” (if someone says)He is with His Essence in every makan or in a Makan, then he’s a Kafir”. Ibn Hamdan al-Harrani al-Hanbali, 690 Hijri, work entitled ‘Nihayatul Mubtadi’in fi Usul ud Din, page 31.

13 – Abu Nasr As-Sijsi said, “He was when there was no Makan, then He created Makan, and He is as He was before creating Makan”. Page 34 Nihayatul Mubtadi’in.

14 – Abu Muhammed Rizqullah bin ‘Abdil Wahhab at-Tamimi Shaykh bin said, “we don’t say the ‘Arsh is His Makan, because places are His creation”. Page 35 Nihayatul Mubtadi’in.

15 – “The Scholar of the Hanbalis in Hijaz, and Sham, their Imam, the Faqih, Righteous Muhaddith, the ‘Abid, Shaykh ‘Abdullah bin ‘Udah bin ‘Abdillah Sufan bin Shaykh ‘Isa bin al-Haj Salamah al-Qudumi An-Nabulusi al-Hanbali of Athari Madhab resident of Medinah, born 1247 Hijri.” Agrees with and quotes the words of Imam Ibn Balban and ‘Shaykh AbdulBaqi regarding makan in agreement. “(from what we will mention) a small portion of the ‘Aqaid of the Imams of Hanabilah, which we have taken and studied from our great scholars and Imams, which indicate them being free from Tashbih and Tajsim, and from every vile belief.”
On page 145 the author says, “whoever believes He ta’ala is in a Makan or in every Makan, then he’s a renegade (Mulhid), misguided innovator.” Source: Al-Manhaj al-Ahmed fi Daru’ al-Mathalib al-lati Tunma li Madhab al-Imam Ahmed.

Wa ‘alaykumus Salam

2 of the quotes are from Shaykh Haddad’s website.


One Response to “Lie from Pseudo-Hanbali: The Salaf and the Hanabilah didn’t negate Makan”

  1. Ahmed said

    Could you please compile a list of hanbali scholars who negated hadd/limit for Allah ?

    Jazakallah khair

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