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‘Allama As-Saffarini on Hasan narrating from ‘Ali (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him)

Posted by muhammedm on March 18, 2009

Majority of the ‘Ulema and Huffadh from the Imams of this science reject al-Hasan al-Basri (Allah ta’ala have mercy on him) hearing from Sayyidina ‘Ali (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him). A group from the later Imams and the authoritative Huffadh took this position, amongst them Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyya. And a group from the Huffadh confirmed it, from them Al-Hafidh Diya’ ud Din al-Maqdisi al-Hanbali in his “al-Mukhtara”, for he said, “al-Hasan narrated from ‘Ali (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him)”. And it’s said, “he didn’t hear from him”, Al-Hafidh bin Hajar wrote after this sentence in his “Atraaf al-Mukhtara”, “it’s known with consensus that al-Hasan was born two years before the end of the Khilafa of Sayyidina Umar (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him). His mother, Khayra, was the servant of Umm Salama (Allah ta’ala be pleased with her). She would take him to the Sahaba (Allah ta’ala be pleased with them all) to bless him. She took him to Umar, and he made dua’ for him, “O Allah ta’ala give him understanding in religion, and make people love him.” Al-Hafidh Jamal ud Din al-Mizzi mentioned it in his at-Tahdhib and al-‘Askari with his chain narrated in Kitab al-Muwa’iz.

From what is known about him is that when he reached the age of seven he was commanded to pray, and so he would attend the Juma’ and the congragrattional prayers. Then how can al-Hasan’s hearing from ‘Ali be denied? While he would meet the Sahaba everyday in the Masjid, five times a day from the time he could discern (Mayyaza) until he reached 14 years of age, and while knowing that the commander of the believers would visit the mothers of the believers, and from them is Umm Salama, and Hasan and his mother were in her (Umm Salama’s) house. It’s also mentioned from Hasan al-Basri which indicates his hearing from ‘Ali, Al-Mizzi in his Tahdhib mentioned with chain that includes Abi Nu’aym on the authority of Yunus bin ‘Ubayd, he said, “I asked al-Hasan, “O Aba Sa’id, you say “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said”, while you have not seen him?” He (al-Hasan) said, “O son of my brother, you have asked me about something that no one has asked before you, and if it wasn’t for your position with me I would not tell you, you know the time in which I lived, when al-Hajjaj governed. Every time you have heard from me saying, “the Prophet (peace be upon him) said”, that is on the authority of ‘Ali bin Abi Talib, (I didn’t mention him because) I was living in a time in which I was not able to mention ‘Ali.

Imam Ahmed has narrated in his Musnad: “Hashim narrated, Yusuf narrated on the authority of Hasan, on the authority of ‘Ali, who said, “I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say, “the pen has been lifted from three: from a child until he reaches puberty, from a person who is sleeping until he wakes up, and from an insane person until he comes to his senses.” At-Tirmidhi narrated it, and declared it Hasan, Nasai and al-Hakim narrated it as well. Ad-Diya’ al-Maqdisi authenticated it in his “al-Mukhtara”. Al-Hafidh Zayn ud Din al-‘Iraqi said in Sharh at-Tirmidhi, “’Ali bin al-Madini said, “Hasan saw ‘Ali in Madina, when he was a young child (ghulam). Abu Zar’ah said, “Hasan was 14 years old when ‘Ali was pledged (bay’ah), and he saw ‘Ali in Madina, then he went to Kufa then Basra and Hasan didn’t meet him after that. Hasan said, “I saw Az-Zubayr (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him) pledge to ‘Ali.” End of ‘Iraqi’s words.

Ad-Daraqutni has narrated a number of ahadith from Ali via Hasan, likewise Nasai, Tahawi, indeed a group from those who authored works narrated a number of ahadith with these two in them. Hafidh ibn Hajar said in Tahdhib at-Tahdhib, “Yahya bin Ma’in said, “Al-Hasan didn’t narrate from ‘Ali bin Abi Talib. It was said, “Did he not hear from Uthman (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him)?” They narrated from him saying, “I saw ‘Uthman giving a khutba.” More than one (scholar) has said, “He didn’t hear from ‘Ali.” When ‘Ali left (his residence) after ‘Uthman was made Shahid, Hasan was in Madina, then he lived in Basra and died there.

Hafidh said, “It comes in the Musnad of Abi Ya’la al-Musali, he said, “Juwayriya bin Isriin narrated to us, ‘Uqba bin Abi As-Suhba’ al-Bahili informed us, I heard al-Hasan say, “I heard ‘Ali say, “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “The likeness of my Ummah is that of rain…”hadith. Muhammed bin Al-Hasan bin As-Sayrifi said, “This is clear/explicit text regard al-Hasan hearing from ‘Ali, and the men (in the chain) are trustworthy. Ibn Hibban declared Juwayriya as trustworthy, and Imam Ahmed and Ibn Ma’in declared ‘Uqbah as trustworthy.

Source: Sharh Thulathiyat Musnad Imam Ahmed by ‘Allama Saffarini

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One Response to “‘Allama As-Saffarini on Hasan narrating from ‘Ali (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him)”

  1. Abu Zahra said

    Assalamu alaikum

    Dr GF Haddad replied to the above by stating:

    As-Salamu `alaykum:

    >Huffadh confirmed it, from them Al-Hafidh Diya’ ud Din al-Maqdisi
    al-Hanbali in his “al-Mukhtara” , for he said, “al-Hasan narrated from
    `Ali (Allah ta’ala be pleased with him)”. And it’s said, “he didn’t hear
    from him”,

    Al-Diya’ only wrote: “Al-Hasan ibn Yasar al-Basri, from `Ali `alayhi as-Salam, and it was said he did not
    hear from him.”

    >Al-Hafidh bin Hajar wrote after this sentence in his “Atraaf
    al-Mukhtara” , …
    > From what is known about him is that when he reached the age of seven
    he was commanded to pray, and so he would attend the Juma’ and the
    congragrattional prayers. Then how can al-Hasan’s hearing from `Ali be
    denied?

    Ibn Hajar’s position is that there is no authentic sama`, cf. Talkhis al-Habir (1:184) and Ta`rif Ahl al-Taqdis, his catalogue of mudallisun.

    >It’s also mentioned from Hasan al-Basri which indicates his hearing
    from `Ali, Al-Mizzi in his Tahdhib mentioned

    Al-Mizzi began his chapter on al-Hasan with the statement that his sama`
    from `Ali is not sahih.

    >with chain that includes Abi Nu’aym on the authority of Yunus bin
    `Ubayd, he said, “I asked al-Hasan,

    Here is the chain al-Mizzi cites, and which al-Mubarakfuri said should be checked:

    Muhammad ibn Musa al-Harashi (thiqa, hafiz) said:
    Thumama ibn `Ubayda narrated to us (munkar al-hadith, accused of lying):
    `Atiyya ibn Muharib [?] narrated to us:
    from Yunus ibn `Ubayd (most reliable companion of al-Hasan).

    So Thumama is definitely a weak link. Hence Hafiz Ibn Rajab in Sharh `Ilal al-Tirmidhi, section on the different levels of mursal hadith, comments on this story: “This is a weak chain, and there is no established sama` of al-Hasan from `Ali.”

    > “O Aba Sa’id, you say “The Prophet
    (peace be upon him) said”, while you have not seen him?” He (al-Hasan)
    said, “O son of my brother, you have asked me about something that no
    one has asked before you, and if it wasn’t for your position with me I
    would not tell you, you know the time in which I lived, when al-Hajjaj
    governed. Every time you have heard from me saying, “the Prophet (peace
    be upon him) said”, that is on the authority of `Ali bin Abi Talib, (I
    didn’t mention him because) I was living in a time in which I was not
    able to mention `Ali.

    “On the authority of `Ali” means that his Companion-link is `Ali, not
    that he necessarily heard it from him.

    Moreover, our liegelord `Ali is one of the Companions of Badr and
    al-Hasan said verbatim that *he did not narrate from a single Badr
    Companion* as narrated by al-Nasawi in al-Ma`rifa wal-Tarikh (2:35) with
    a prestigious sound chain. Also, al-Hasan’s student Qatada said (2:776):
    “Al-Hasan never narrated to us that he met anyone of the Badri
    Companions directly for hadith” and in the Muqaddima of Sahih Muslim
    with his chain from Qatada: “By Allah, al-Hasan never narrated to us
    anything from a Badr Companion directly (mushafahatan) !” The latter
    report is also in al-Mizzi (6:122).

    Ayyub al-Sakhtiyani, also one of the foremost students of al-Hasan, said
    the same thing: “Al-Hasan never narrated to us anything from a Badr
    Companion directly” as narrated by Ibn Abi Hatim in al-Marasil (no. 95).
    And this was also stated by Ibn al-Madini, Abu Zur`a al-Razi and Bahz
    ibn Asad. Al-Bazzar added: “Not a single hadith.” As mentioned by
    al-Zayla`i who quoted him in Nasb al-Raya (1:91).

    > Imam Ahmed has narrated in his Musnad: “Hashim narrated, Yusuf
    narrated on the authority of Hasan, on the authority of `Ali, who said,
    “I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say, “the pen has been lifted
    from three: from a child until he reaches puberty, from a person who is
    sleeping until he wakes up, and from an insane person until he comes to
    his senses.” At-Tirmidhi narrated it, and declared it Hasan, Nasai and
    al-Hakim narrated it as well.

    See the above remark on the ambiguous phraseology “on the authority of”
    and the prior discussion of the above report in this thread including
    al-Tirmidhi’ s words on the lack of direct audition. In addition, it is most likely a saying of our liegelord `Ali himself rather than a Prophetic hadith according to al-Daraqutni in his `Ilal and al-Nasa’i as cited by Ibn Hajar in Talkhis al-Habir.

    There is agreement that whenever al-Hasan’s term is “`an” it presupposes
    a break in the chain, a rule widely ignored by the proponents of the
    sama` claim who pile up report upon mursal report so that they delude themselves and those who read them. Al-Bazzar said: “In reality `Ali only narrates from Qays
    ibn `Abbad and others, from `Ali.”

    And this is how we need to understand al-Baghawi’s narration from Imam Ahmad in Tabaqat al-Hanabila which I cited in my Four Imams (provided it is authentic) that “al-Hasan certainly did narrate from (qad rawa `an) `Ali ibn Abi Talib” – i.e. with `an`ana but NOT sama`. Here is an example of an identical contrast in another discussion among the huffaz:

    Ya`qub ibn Sufyan said in al-Ma`rifa wal-Tarikh (2:129): Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Rahim said: I heard `Ali [ibn al-Madini] being asked: “Did Yunus narrate from Nafi`? [rawa Yunus `an Nafi`?]” He said: “He did, that much is sure [qad rawa `anh]; but I do not know whether he heard from him or not [la adri sami`a minhu aw la] – and I do not reckon he heard from him [wa-la ahsabuhu sami`a minh].”

    This is also how we should comprehend the wording in al-Diya’s section-title, and Allah knows best.

    Also, they misconstrue al-Hasan’s sighting of `Ali as his narration from him, whereas a child knows the difference. Abu Zur`a was asked: “Did al-Hasan hear [hadith] from any of the Companions of Badr?” He replied: “He saw them with his eyes: he saw `Uthman and `Ali.” “But did he hear from them any hadith?” He replied: “No.”

    Also, people misconstrue the quote of Ibn Al-Madini, “He did not see
    ‘Ali except when he was in Medinah, and [Hasan] was a ghulaam (young
    lad)” to mean he heard from him, when it is established that Ibn
    al-Madini himself was adamant al-Hasan did not hear anything from him.

    > Ad-Daraqutni has narrated a number of ahadith from Ali via Hasan,
    likewise Nasai, Tahawi, indeed a group from those who authored works
    narrated a number of ahadith with these two in them.

    Which of them with authentic direct-audition phraseology?

    > Hafidh said, “It comes in the Musnad of Abi Ya’la al-Musali,
    > he said, “Juwayriya bin Isriin narrated to us, `Uqba bin Abi As-Suhba’
    al-Bahili informed us, I heard al-Hasan say, “I heard `Ali say, “The
    Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “The likeness of my Ummah is that of
    rain…”hadith. Muhammed bin Al-Hasan bin As-Sayrifi said, “This is
    clear/explicit text regard al-Hasan hearing from `Ali, and the men (in
    the chain) are trustworthy. Ibn Hibban declared Juwayriya as
    trustworthy, and Imam Ahmed and Ibn Ma’in declared `Uqbah as
    trustworthy.

    We discussed this report previously in this thread. Assuming it does
    exist thus in Abu Ya`la, that chain is anomalous.

    Its correct chain is that al-Hasan narrates this hadith *mursal
    mu`an`an* i.e. with vague transmission terminology and missing the
    intermediary link(s) to the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace. This
    is affirmed by three of al-Hasan’s own students as narrated by Imam
    Ahmad in his `Ilal (Riyadh: Dar al-Khani ed. 3:315 no. 5402) with his
    chains to al-Hasan.

    Note: There is no “Juwayriya bin Isriin” nor (as misspelled by Dr.
    Muhammad Tahir Al-Qadri) “Juwairiyah ibn Ashras” but either Juwayriya
    ibn Asma’, one of the narrators of al-Bukhari and Muslim, or Hawthara
    ibn Ashras; both narrated to Abu Ya`la. However, al-Mubarakfuri in
    Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi names Hawthara as the correct link.

    WAllahu a`lam.

    Was-Salam,
    GF Haddad

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